Seriously starting to dislike the i3-please skip if disagree

[epirali]

Is it possible that your purchase was not based on the job that the vehicle is being asked to do? I think this is one of the best city commuting cars ever. I would not choose it for long distance or high speed travel with multiple drivers. JMHO.

That is a valid and good point. I didn't carefully consider all driving conditions. But I am surprised, to me even in city driving the car has far too much lateral motion. Which is surprising from a small car with weight in the bottom.

The leaf couldn't handle but it did not roll and did not bounce nearly this much.

 

[jadnashuanh]

I am familiar with range estimation, driving style etc. But a car just sitting there should NOT change range estimate by that much. It hasn't updated any driving style from being parked. Must be a bug.

Temperature changes while the car sits, and especially the battery compartment. So, yes, the estimated range can change while it is sitting there.

 

[epirali]

I am familiar with range estimation, driving style etc. But a car just sitting there should NOT change range estimate by that much. It hasn't updated any driving style from being parked. Must be a bug.

Temperature changes while the car sits, and especially the battery compartment. So, yes, the estimated range can change while it is sitting there.

If you saw my original post it can not change 23 miles from a change of 5 degree ambient (72 to 93 miles). That is not it.

 

[I33t]

I am familiar with range estimation, driving style etc. But a car just sitting there should NOT change range estimate by that much. It hasn't updated any driving style from being parked. Must be a bug.

Temperature changes while the car sits, and especially the battery compartment. So, yes, the estimated range can change while it is sitting there.

If you saw my original post it can not change 23 miles from a change of 5 degree ambient (72 to 93 miles). That is not it.

Is this the original post you are talking about?:

10) The remote app range estimation is just garbage. I charged the car last night and at 2am it stated 70 mile range/100%, then this morning before I left it was reporting 93 miles/100% range (and I have seen it jump around on a stationary car). The car itself was reporting 67 miles guess. Seriously?

The remote app can be out of sync with the car if there has been a comms issue. This could just be as simple as a mobile network blackspot or outage. What was the ambient temperature in the morning, and what was the previous trip efficiency?

I agree that a lot of your issues would not have happened if you had been better informed by the dealer regarding the options.

My suggestion is to ditch the i3 and just drive the i8 instead. There will be a bit of stress in taking a loss, but a lot less stress in the long run.

 

[epirali]

It can't be a comm issue. An update at 2am successful shows 72 miles, update at 8am shows 92 miles. This is not a comm issue, rather bad firmware/software. As I said the temperature shifted 5 degrees. It would take a 50 degree shift to get anything significant like that. My guess: data is aged out of calculation by time only, so as the car just sits there older data is no longer used to calculate range. Now that's a bad design decision IMHO.

What I do not like are not options problems. I won't accept beige interior for keyless entry. This is just stupid grouping of features. I guess it's one thing to disagree or like the car, another to keep trying to discount points about its shortcoming on "you were not informed."

I am thinking of ditching the i3, I am not bothered by the financial loss. I have actually had some useful feedback in this thread from others.

My only point about the i8 was that these two cars could not have been functionally designed by the same group. They share some user interior elements and body technology, but the attention to driving detail is from two different worlds. And no I don't mean styles, rather just plain oversights. I believe the i3 driving experience is half baked, I will bet it will be modified in coming model years.

Edit: I just watched the remote app change the estimate from 92 miles to 75 miles from 8am while preconditioning was active to 8:35am when it was not.

 

[cove3]

I'm getting 4.8-5.1 miles/kwh in normal mode mostly local with some freeway. with usable battery of 21.1kwh so 100 is probably right. I don't use the ac much

There are a number of posts on the facebook egolf where drivers are posting speedometer pics of 100-110 so it is possible the car does a little better than the 83 epa rating. Range does not seem to be a discussion problem in the egolf forum in the US or the one in Germany

Ron

 

[jadnashuanh]

The i3 does not update the app unless some state change occurs: finished charging, start it up, stop it, send it a remote command, etc. So, it is possible that it could go several days between updates if the car is just sitting there. As a result, what is shown on the app and what the car thinks may differ - a change in calculated range is not considered a big enough issue to update the server and thus, the app. The battery temperature will vary partly with ambient, but also with activity.

Just like on an ICE, the estimated range to empty is always a guess that will vary based on the conditions when you use it, and is based on previous use. We all don't drive the same places the same way on exactly the same traffic situation or weather, so things will vary.

As more field information is gathered, BMW has better information to help base future software updates. Things will improve, but like any car, you need to learn its capabilities and second guess the computer sometimes if your use this time is different than the last. I've driven mine as much as 10-miles and not had the range change because I'm currently driving more economically or it's warmer, or some other factors. The miles/Kw is a good indication of what range you have left if you keep driving as you are at the moment verses the SOC, and you don't really need a number to use that...the bars are enough.

 

[epirali]

The i3 does not update the app unless some state change occurs: finished charging, start it up, stop it, send it a remote command, etc. So, it is possible that it could go several days between updates if the car is just sitting there. As a result, what is shown on the app and what the car thinks may differ - a change in calculated range is not considered a big enough issue to update the server and thus, the app. The battery temperature will vary partly with ambient, but also with activity.

Just like on an ICE, the estimated range to empty is always a guess that will vary based on the conditions when you use it, and is based on previous use. We all don't drive the same places the same way on exactly the same traffic situation or weather, so things will vary.

As more field information is gathered, BMW has better information to help base future software updates. Things will improve, but like any car, you need to learn its capabilities and second guess the computer sometimes if your use this time is different than the last. I've driven mine as much as 10-miles and not had the range change because I'm currently driving more economically or it's warmer, or some other factors. The miles/Kw is a good indication of what range you have left if you keep driving as you are at the moment verses the SOC, and you don't really need a number to use that...the bars are enough.

Thanks, but again in my case this is not true. First the car definitely updates the state of charge during charging. I can watch the percent and estimates change. Second this jump was in 5 minutes, not in "days."

I am very familiar with range estimation, this is just range calculation during car sitting idle with no changing behavior. It is not the same thing.

 

[psquare]

Thanks, but again in my case this is not true. First the car definitely updates the state of charge during charging. I can watch the percent and estimates change. Second this jump was in 5 minutes, not in "days."

I am very familiar with range estimation, this is just range calculation during car sitting idle with no changing behavior. It is not the same thing.

Your battery changes temperature whilst sitting idle or is charging, that's why the range changes. I think you're getting a little too hung up about it.

 

[epirali]

Thanks, but again in my case this is not true. First the car definitely updates the state of charge during charging. I can watch the percent and estimates change. Second this jump was in 5 minutes, not in "days."

I am very familiar with range estimation, this is just range calculation during car sitting idle with no changing behavior. It is not the same thing.

Your battery changes temperature whilst sitting idle or is charging, that's why the range changes. I think you're getting a little too hung up about it.

Gents, I really really am not. I just don't know why everyone is insisting on ignoring basic physics vs a bug. The battery has a LOT OF thermal mass. If you took a battery that size, even without temperature management, and changed the ambient 50 degrees it would take HOURS to start seeing significant change in temperature. We are talking TENS of hours. And when it does it will absolutely not move 20 mile worth of power out of 70, that is over 15% shift.

Its definitely some kind of estimation bug, and in no way reflects reality. It is not critical but it actually shows a lack of attention to a very important function (range estimation).

 

[jadnashuanh]

And, as the battery IS being charged, the status IS changing, so it does report that, and other things get updated at the same time. Once the battery is fully charged, and nothing else happens, it may sit for days without forcing any further updates.

 

[epirali]

And, as the battery IS being charged, the status IS changing, so it does report that, and other things get updated at the same time. Once the battery is fully charged, and nothing else happens, it may sit for days without forcing any further updates.

That is not correct from what I have seen. I have had the battery status UPDATE during pre-conditioning. It reports the time of last update if you look carefully at the app. The time will not change unless the data is updated. When I checked this morning there was an update in the morning AFTER it had finished charging but while it was in the pre-conditioning window.

 

[psquare]

Just drive your car and assume that each quarter of the range display gives you a minimum of 15 Comfort miles on a REx (that's under cold conditions). My REx gives me around 75-80 electric miles (EcoPro) in the current english summer climate on a full charge. I don't give a monkeys what the "guess-o-meter" tells me when I turn on the car with a full charge.

However, whilst driving the range estimate is actually quite accurate, especially if you program a destination in the SatNav.

But it seems to me you're very likely to stick to your own "observations" anyway...

 

[epirali]

Just drive your car and assume that each quarter of the range display gives you a minimum of 15 Comfort miles on a REx (that's under cold conditions). My REx gives me around 75-80 electric miles (EcoPro) in the current english summer climate on a full charge. I don't give a monkeys what the "guess-o-meter" tells me when I turn on the car with a full charge.

However, whilst driving the range estimate is actually quite accurate, especially if you program a destination in the SatNav.

But it seems to me you're very likely to stick to your own "observations" anyway...

Thanks for advice. Sorry I am not in agreement with your method, a "technology" car should have proper technology. We each have our way of doing things, right?

I wasn't aware it was somehow wrong to actually point out flaws, that I should stop "observing."

 

[jadnashuanh]

That is not correct from what I have seen. I have had the battery status UPDATE during pre-conditioning. It reports the time of last update if you look carefully at the app. The time will not change unless the data is updated. When I checked this morning there was an update in the morning AFTER it had finished charging but while it was in the pre-conditioning window.

Once the battery is fully charged, the vehicle won't turn the EVSE back on until the battery level drops some. So, the car, knowing when you asked it to be ready, will try to ensure that you've both preconditioned things properly, which may see a battery drop, and then, try to ensure that it gets topped up again before your requested departure time. as a result, the battery level WILL change and things WILL get updated.

The range indication on the i3 is similar to the distance to empty on my ICE...neither one is entirely accurate. I don't consider that a flaw...it is only going on prior history and current use pattern...it is not omniscient.

 

[epirali]

That is not correct from what I have seen. I have had the battery status UPDATE during pre-conditioning. It reports the time of last update if you look carefully at the app. The time will not change unless the data is updated. When I checked this morning there was an update in the morning AFTER it had finished charging but while it was in the pre-conditioning window.

Once the battery is fully charged, the vehicle won't turn the EVSE back on until the battery level drops some. So, the car, knowing when you asked it to be ready, will try to ensure that you've both preconditioned things properly, which may see a battery drop, and then, try to ensure that it gets topped up again before your requested departure time. as a result, the battery level WILL change and things WILL get updated.

The range indication on the i3 is similar to the distance to empty on my ICE...neither one is entirely accurate. I don't consider that a flaw...it is only going on prior history and current use pattern...it is not omniscient.

Again I hate to keep beating the dead horse, but this is NOT the case from what I am seeing. I have no illusion of absolute accuracy, but I guarantee there is a bug here. All the elements you are discussing will account for maximum 3-4% charge differential, not a reading jump of around 17%. This is not from range estimation, guesstimates, etc. This is an error, plain and simple. I have no idea what makes the software add a random 20 miles, then take it away while the car is stationary. To recap again: 2am 100%/72 miles range, 8:20am 100% charge 92 mile range, 840:am 100% charge 72 mile range. This is not from those factors.

 

[alohart]

BMW's software has been the most disappointing aspect of the i3 for me, a first-time BMW owner (well, except for a 1967 R69S motorcycle many years ago). The estimated range algorithm seems much worse than that in our simple Mitsubishi i-MiEV which we replaced with our i3. How do the range estimates presented by iRemote compare with those presented by the car itself? Our i3 isn't close by to check, but isn't the car's range estimate different for each of the driving modes? Doesn't the car's range estimate change when the climate control system is turned on? Is the car's range estimate while charging the same as when it has been fully charged? How do these range estimates relate to that displayed by iRemote?

It seems to me that there are so many variables associated with computing the range and which range is displayed and by which device that it's easy to be suspicious about the various range estimates. Because of this, I mostly ignore range estimates and pay attention to my driving efficiency (mi/kWh), the distance to my goal, my knowledge of the driving conditions ahead, and the battery pack SOC. I've been doing this for 13 years with our Honda Insight hybrid which displays good driving efficiency data and has a good enough fuel gauge. Of course, the big difference is that our Insight can travel 600 - 800 miles on a full tank instead of our i3 BEV's 90 - 115 miles on a full charge, so a range misestimate can be more consequential in our i3.

 

[epirali]

Thank you for the feedback. For what it's worth here are more observations:

- 20 bogus range mile delta is definite bug in remote, only appears when car is pre-conditioning, disappears when it stops.

- I tried raising the seat all the way as I realized the wheel height even at lowest position is very high and really not designed for lower seating positions. This helped with feeling less lateral sway then being low (counter intuitive)

- raised the front/back tire pressure to 4 over recommended. This helps with both reducing the bounciness of the car and helps reduce the wheel tracking others have mentioned.

I will schedule the firmware update for the SOC and reduction of accelerator curve, then see how it goes before making final decision. Appreciate the constructive feedback, and will point out again to others that I titled this thread so no one would be offended because I am criticizing their car. Obviously it only partially worked.

 

[I33t]

What I do not like are not options problems. I won't accept beige interior for keyless entry. This is just stupid grouping of features. I guess it's one thing to disagree or like the car, another to keep trying to discount points about its shortcoming on "you were not informed."

The reality is that in the US the options are grouped together, so if you want keyless entry, you have to order the 'world' it comes with. Assuming you did not realise that before you ordered, then this is a information failure from your dealer. I agree that the options should not be grouped together, but I guess that is how BMW decided to handle it in the US where large numbers of cars are held in stock.

Over here, and probably most other places, you order the car and it is built to your order. That's certainly what I did, and I could option just about anything except black carpets. Having to accept white carpets is my major, major, peeve with the i3.

 

[epirali]

Agree with your points, I knew about it, but living with it was more irritating than I realized. I was very well informed about the car, but didn't expect the overall experience to be so "careless."

The carpets are easy, I immediately ordered custom dark gray color carpets! That I can fix!